Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Between 2001 and 2021, in a 20 year period in the war on terrorism, coalition forces, which included Canada, the United Kingdom, America and many other countries, suffered over 28,000 casualties in the field of combat. And in two years, since October of 2023, with Israel's war in Gaza, people in Gaza have suffered over 200,000 casualties. And on Sunday, September 21, Canada and other countries around the world, Mike Wixon basically said enough is enough and did an unprecedented shift in foreign policy for a lot of countries who a year ago did something that was unthinkable.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: From the office of the Prime Minister. Canada recognizes the State of Palestine, Canada recognizes the State of Palestine and offers our partnership in building the promise of a peaceful future for both the State of Palestine and the State of Israel.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: United Kingdom joining suit. Australia, Portugal on Monday 22nd September. France and Belgium joining in as well. A lot of these countries, to my mind, Mike, are finally trying to pull in and combine all their political muscle once and for all to get a piece. The bloodshed is too much. People can't see the videos anymore, can't read the stories anymore. And finally the world is banding together to somehow get the Palestinians and Israelis and Hamas to come to sort of peaceful resolution because the bloodshed has gone on long enough and people can't take it anymore.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Yeah, it is, it is at a place where even Israelis are, are up in arms about how far the destruction has gone.
And you know, Jim, it isn't, it isn't unlike humanity to stand up for humanity when it's become too difficult to manage.
You know, that feeling and that witness to this kind of horrible treatment of human beings.
You know, this is citizens, this is not Hamas, this is schools. This is not.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: And hospitals and people starving to death and malnutrition and bombing of buildings randomly.
And it's, it's.
I think there was a tipping point in the last little while, as someone pointed out, I was listening to someone the other day, that the, the public opinion about Israel in Gaza has shifted dramatically to the point it's reached to the highest levels of government offices around the world, Mike, where they're like, you know what?
I agree with the people. We have to do something for peace. This is not one side or the other. This is not taking sides. This is trying to find a way to stop the killing.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: I think when the war began, when this began as a reaction to such a horrible event, the world was ready to get behind Israel and say, okay, yeah, this needs to be dealt with. You cannot have terrorism floating into your country in this manner.
But so long this has been just the longest raging battle that seems so one sided.
There has been so little response on, on the other side of this border.
I want to read something to you.
[00:03:25] Speaker A: Please do.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: This is from Brian Lilly on your side. He is a columnist with the Post Media, Toronto sun. And he said this may go against a vote of the majority of parliamentarians taken over just a year ago. But that doesn't matter to Carney. So even his own party not fully in agreement with him doing this. He went ahead and did it anyway. That is the pressure of the people. He's not interested in Parliament. He has his friends to impress in New York and at the United Nations General Assemb.
That's where Carney gets to meet with all the big names, Emmanuel Macron, Anthony Albanese, all who have also recognized this new Palestinian state.
And he poses this question, quick question, can anybody tell me the capital of this state?
[00:04:10] Speaker A: Okay, I understand what Brian Lilly's trying to get at, but this is not a photo op for Mark Carney. I don't think so. I don't believe when I see all the different countries making the announcement all within 24 hours of each other. It's all these big countries around the world, France, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, Belgium, trying to exercise some political might and muscle into this situation and fill a void that America usually fills. Historically when Israel is at war. After a while America steps in and says, enough, let's all have some peace and rebuild. And there's been deathly silence out of Washington for almost two years.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: 100 now here's the problem with what Brian Lilly says as well.
I recall maybe at the beginning of this situation, Israel brought all kinds of reporters, all kinds of them into their country and they wined and dined them and showed them how great a state they were and what they were doing for the world and all of this sort of stuff. Brian Lilly was on that junction. He brought them to the forefront. He seems to be continuing to be paying for this free trip to Israel with this opinion because it's difficult for me to imagine anybody looking at all the carnage and saying that it isn't time to stop. I don't think he wishes for no peace. But what that signified to me was, okay, no matter what happens in this scenario, our government's making the wrong move. And like you point out, I think that they're bending to public opinion and just their own human nature. We can't see any more bloodshed right now.
[00:05:47] Speaker A: A reporter who would be going into Gaza to report on what's going on has a target on their back.
A UN Member, Red Cross member has a target on their back. And this is why Prime Minister Carney and all the world leaders are getting together, looking at a two state solution, a recognition that Hamas is excluded from governance. So they want elections by 2026 where Hamas is not part of it.
A reform of the Palestinian Authority, cease fire. And a big part of it is get the hostages back to Israel. That would really help things along.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: With all due respect, it has been a long time and the hostages that have been released are in bad shape and they must be the best of the best of condition to be the ones that are going to be released and be on camera. Hamas knows this.
Don't you think that maybe we've lost the majority of these hostages or they're in such bad condition now that getting them back would just fuel the fires of Israel even more?
[00:06:49] Speaker A: You raise a good point that they're, they're going to be in such a sorry state that Israel would retaliate. But the, this war has to stop. The bloodshed has to stop.
I don't use this term lightly. There is a humanitarian crisis going on in that stretch of the world.
People are starving to death. They are dropping bombs and buildings that have already been bombed now. And America is providing them and sold them the planes.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: Right.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: The guided munitions, the missiles and all the hardware they're using for this. How come they're not saying anything?
[00:07:23] Speaker B: So Mark Carney is back to back against the US on this as well. And you know, it's a bold move for a small country like ours to make.
But you can tell that it comes from just a state of common sense that this looks bad, this feels bad, this is bad for humanity overall to let us fight this long and to fight for so long without intervention.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: Mike, I think Jon Stewart is one of the more talented television journalists America's produced in the last 25 years.
[00:07:54] Speaker B: I'd agree.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: And he's also a very proud Jewish American. And he said the other day, I am a proud Jewish, I am proud of my Judaism, but I disagree with what's going on with the Israeli Defense Force in Gaza. And you can be both. You can be, oh, I never, I.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: Never see the religion alongside this government maneuver, this government operation. This is a country's operation. This is not in. It has never been in my mind for the last six months anything to do with Jewish people around the world. It has to do with a battle plan at the Top level in Israel.
[00:08:36] Speaker A: The, the greatest generals and the greatest military heroes in Israel. They fought in the Sinai, they fought in the Golan Heights, they fought on battlefields, they didn't bomb hospitals and schools.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: Right. It's not in there.
[00:08:50] Speaker A: That's not, that's not warfare. That's against the Geneva Convention. That's against the whole rules are waging war that you don't do that. Yeah, maybe the stray bullet or bomb will fall now and then, but you don't target the buildings.
[00:09:02] Speaker B: What do you think the fallout is from various countries allowing Palestine their, their.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Dignity in this, the countries that border the area?
[00:09:11] Speaker B: Well, the countries that have said look, Palestine's a state.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: That's a great question. And this is, they have the UN General assembly coming up and that's obviously going to be a huge topic. And now we're, I believe over 150 countries around the world are now have recognized Palestine as a state. This is significant. And these are significant Western countries with a lot of clout in the world that are going to be putting pressure on Israel, more importantly putting pressure on Donald Trump in America to do something. Historically, America has always stepped in after a little while and said the war's over, we sell you all your military hardware, enough's enough, but let's have some peace. And it's been, they've been allowing it to go on and on and on for close to two years now and.
[00:09:58] Speaker B: Restocking and restocking and resupplying.
[00:10:00] Speaker A: And those F35 stealth fighters didn't come from is Tel Aviv. They came from factories in America.
[00:10:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: And they were bought by Israel.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: And do you think Trump is going to change his position on this at any point?
[00:10:12] Speaker A: No, no, no, I don't.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: Meanwhile, 150 other countries around the world have taken this position and the US the number one backer of this war is not budging on their position.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: I think we're entering a paradigm shift in world politics in the influence of the Israeli lobby group in Washington and around the world. Once upon a time they could exercise their power and people would understand their plight.
And once upon a time, Israel was the little guy with old weapons and barely hanging on by their fingernails to a little sliver of desert in the Mediterranean. Well now they're the, they're the biggest bully on the block. There's no country that surrounds Israel that threatens Israel.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: And they do that on the basis of being backed by the U.S.
historically the European Union and UK countries like Canada.
That's the might that they have in These battles. So essentially we are the ones that have fueled this.
[00:11:13] Speaker A: It's, it's, I think it's a combination of a lot of things, Mike. It's historically we've all, yes, we're going to back Israel, the Jewish state. Of course, after everything that's happened to the Jewish people in the Holocaust, of course they, they have a right to have their own country and live for sure. But no one's ever doubted that. And I hope Israel last a thousand years or more.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: One million percent. Yeah, they should last an eternity.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: It's an eternity. But not to wiping the people of Gaza off the face of the earth and crushing it.
[00:11:45] Speaker B: And also not discounting that there have been horrible, horrible acts of terror out of this enemy state of Israel. I understand they have to face it and they've had to face it and they've, they've had to build systems to protect themselves and, and enough is enough on the other side of that border as well.
But taking them back to the stone age was maybe not the solution at this point. Humanity itself is the, is the victim.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: Hamas are not a 3 year old kid with nothing to eat. Hamas is not a pregnant woman who's cowering in an air raid shelter. Hamas is not a grandmother who, who can't make it to safety as the bombs drop. That's, that's not Hamas. That's just people caught in the crossfire. That's innocent people. And then finally Canada and the rest of the world countries have said, wait a second, we are going to recognize Palestine as a state, a two state solution and we're all going to work together to find peace. There has to be some. You can't tell me with all the world leaders and all their experience in the international stage and all they have to provide in terms of politics and, and everything else, they can't find a peaceful solution to what's going on there. I just refuse to believe that and then negotiate something and it's been going on for years. Here's your hostages, here's your prisoners of war. Let's rebuild. It's the time to rebuild is going to start now. Otherwise there'll be nothing left to rebuild.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: I'll keep an eye on the US right now to see how they react to this world pressure.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: Well, about you in general assembly, Mike, is it's going to be hot and heavy, that's for sure.
[00:13:24] Speaker B: Oh, I think so. Either the US is prepared with a new position by the time they arrive there or there are battles going on non stop in that assembly.
[00:13:34] Speaker A: And as we, we talk today.
You know that other countries around the world are looking at France and Canada and the United Kingdom and Australia and going, they did that. I think I'm going to do that too.
[00:13:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: And all of a sudden, you'll have 200, 250 countries around the world recognizing Palestine as a state. And eventually, maybe, just maybe, we can get some peace. We, we want Israel to live in peace and harmony. We want the Palestinian people in Gaza to live in peace and harmony because we can't take any more the bloodshed.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: This is an opportunity at this moment to finally say, okay, we need to make good and reparation on what has happened as Israelis. You know, the Hamas state has to go away. We all agree all of the obvious things need to occur, but if we can watch that happen in our lifetime for the first time, Jim, we might see peace for a long stretch in.
[00:14:29] Speaker A: That, in that area that we have enough countries around the world who are dedicated to a unified force. Mike. To say, let's get some peace in the Middle East. Let's stop the bloodshed and let's move on. He's Mike. I'm Jim. Thank you, Sam.
